I was a heavy stock and option and commodity trader in the 1980s. So I have a lot of memories of the Crash. I was also a follower of the Elliot Wave then, and actually still use the theory some in chart interpretation.
So I was minting money bigtime until August when the Elliot Wave gave a sell signal with the Dow up around 2700, I turned around to the bear side. I continued to mint money in puts on the OEX - that's the S&P 100 index which was a big trading vehicle in the 1980s. I couldn't short then since I worked for a big Street firm and the house had rules against that. But puts on indices were fine. [By the way, commissions were quite high - even for employees, so day/week trading was costly. ]
By mid October I was up over 100% and had maximal hubris. The Bear side was ruling and I was a bear. All the stars were aligning for the dark side. The Fed was raising rates (#1). During the week before the crash, Congress started threatening to stop LBOs and takeovers (#2). The dollar started to freefall (#3). Reagan shelled an Iranian oil platform in the Persian Gulf (#4). Oil prices spiked (#5). So all that week the market went down by big steps. The signals were a five pointed star - a Pentagram - the sign of the werewolf lol ;-) Friday, October 16, was a big smash down day on huge volume. The Dow was at around 2200, down 500 pts since the August high. I thought that was the bottom or at least a bounce signal.
Sooooooooooo ... I cashed out all my puts and went long in stocks & calls on margin, thinking I was a modern era Jesse Livermore. He had down that in some early Panics - covering shorts and going long after a big smash down.
Monday. October 19, I had to attend a meeting in midtown NYC for a conference of the Japan Society on real estate - the Japaneses were buying US real estate bigtime and I wanted to learn more. Remember, then there were no cell phones, etc. So around midmorning I heard the president of Nomura speak rather worriedly about how the Japanese markets would open later. Uh oh. :-(
During a break around 11:00 AM I went to a pay phone on Seventh Avenue and called my broker. He was quite worried but said it would work out. He sounded shaken. I sold some stocks and calls at the market - the prices and tape were delayed some then as volume was huge.
Early in the afternoon I called again and learned that slide was continuing. So I sold more, about 2/3 of my positions, at big losses. After the close I learned more - the Dow was down 500 pts. Ugh !!!
Well, early the next morning at my desk with a Quotron to see prices, I decided to sell all. I was shaken up and didn't want to "play" in that game for awhile. By then I just had some calls and some OTC stocks left. I got good prices on the calls as the volatility was so high, they had some value left. And selling the OTC stocks then was good since those stocks were quite illiquid and continued to slide down for many days.
The net result was I lost every dollar of my 100% profits and was flat for the year. Nine months of hard work wasted. :-(( It could have been worse, of course, had I not made partial sells and quick decisions. I could have gotten wiped out.
My investment banking business got very active soon thereafter, so I was out of the market during the rebound and for months afterward. But the memories were burned into my brain. I've told this story to many friends over the years. I suppose the Greeks had it right - my hubris was punished by the trading gods.
Friday, October 19, 2007
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36 comments:
WB another time diversification FUBAR by Bunkerman. Sheesh. That always happens when I get ... hubris.
interesting story Bunkerman....any particular reason you decided to take the investment banking path rather than a trading/portfolio management path?
None really. I really didn't understand the Street well at all when I looked for a job in 1981. At the time, investment banking needed ... brains ... lol for structured finance so they hired me ;-)
I did well so stuck with it.
Interesting story that Cashin just said about Gerry Corrigan at the NY Fed calling around on Oct 20 to tell banks to lend.
That's exactly analogous to what JP Morgan did in 1907. And the 1907 Panic is why the Fed was created - so a private banker wouldn't have to be the lead on thsoe decisions.
Bunkerman...they are selling everything that is not bolted down today...ops expo indeed...one would think we would have a little selling hang over net week, unless we crash...don't like you talking about 87'...weirds me out.
the ole cadillac purchase marks a top.....
MLF59...that was a great game...congrats.
a few more days like this and maybe we'll get the uptick rule back and get it applied to ETFs.
At some point the geniuses in DC might realize they don't want the stock market to behave like the hog pit.
I thought you were going elk hunting, frosty? Are bull/bear/beefer hunting instead ;-))
Sheesh I priced some .308 ammo - $400-800 per thousand. The old price a few years ago was $150 per K.
I guess the military is taking it all. Copper & lead prices, too.
I guess I'll has to work down my stockpile for awhile
maybe it was my talking/thinking about Dow 15000 helmets ? ;-)
or maybe when the Alpha Fund hit up +66.6% YTD a few days ago?
666 = number of the beast
Bunkerman...was to go deer hunting this week but my son wrecked his motorcycle sunday...he's ok but not fit to hunt.
sorry to hear that, frosty. I'd glad he's OK.
Motorcycles suck, btw. To be avoided.
sheesh they are really punishing some stocks that had OK earnings: UTX, MMM
Bunkerman...the street talk is all about bringing numbers in for Q4 and 2008...lowering the bar should begin next week...how concerned are you?
I plan on getting the lad a tank, know a good dealer :)
I've heard nothing that affects my thinking about the economic trajectory. One expects a mid-cycle slowdown to affect earnings I don't see the big surprises.
Disinflation, fed easing, moderate growth is bullish.
The housing situation will work out over six months.
of course if one is a trader, these moves are important. One has to buy dips, sell rips or vice versa for shorts. But I'll think they're "fluctuations" in beefer sentiments. For my style, if I do anything, I'll wait & add as my net long was cut back alot recently [per post 200% long to 140% long, now even less]. So I have a lot of buying power. Even more since my T-bills from the commodity account are slowly going to the stock accounts.
get a used H1 Hummer 2004 - very large, safe. 6500 pounds.
Bumpers are 1/4 inch steel and have side rocker panel armor.
People get out of the way of mine, even though I drive very calmly.
Bunkerman...I would sure like to see you hedge that alpha fund for a few weeks.
MLF59 careful riding the trains...I just had several leave the tracks.
is the big one coming Bunkerman?
I've always done better playing the major trend - dips & rips or vice versa. So I'll be patient and let the beefers knock prices lower, then buy what looks good.
Net of the commodity T-bills I'm about off margin anyway.
I think not, mfl59. If one compares my 5 point pentagram of problems in 1987 and today, plus the fact that PEs are so low compared to then, this is nothing. Even thsi subprime screeching is nonsense. I think this is just another beefer hissy-fit like we get every few months. That's in my humble opinion, of course.
The screeching of the recession mongers is going to be very wrong.
I might accelerate some adds to my Krypto Fund soon if they knock stocks down further.
I'm thinking long term - I hope that's clear.
dia spy and qqqq all withing a few bibs of one another today...those darn machines...they should out law machines Bunkerman...they are the devil...uptick just a side show.
trading curbs...what a joke those are.
Bunkerman...this is your fault...new car and no dow 14000 helmets...next trip up to 14k, do your duty or it will be 30 yrs before we see 14k again.
Bunkerman...good stuff on the blog all week, fine job...have a couple of pops tonight and have a great weekend.
GO TRIBE
Bunkerman.....always learning from you....I appreciate it......think we all got a slap in the face today...part of the game... we'll regroup....and attack next week.....cheers
GO TRIBE!!
sorry I couldn't comment real time. My Comcast TV & Internet went down for three hours Friday PM. Good thing I wasn't trading much anyway.
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