So now we have the basics. You know why valuation is so hard, and so valuable, too. Those pesky divergences make it extremely sensitive to the growth rate, the discount rate and the TIME the growth persists. You have to cut off the growth at some point or you get a divergence for any rational discount rate or for the growth rates of common growth stocks.
BUT that long winded tome-like post yesterday did give us a valuable baseline PE: namely, a 20x PE is reasonable in today's market for a company growing steadily at the GDP's nominal long-term growth rate of 5%. [NB: use only nominal discount rates to discount nominal growth. Use real discount rates to discount real growth. You MUST be consistent or will make a huge error.]
So, when we cut-off the growth at 3, 5 or 7 years, we can use a PE of 20x to value the future earnings stream to infinity. And for a medium quality credit, I think a discount rate for earnings of 10% is a reasonable midpoint. That's today's Treasury rate plus 5%. And over 70+ years, the long-term equity rate of return is around 8-10% depending on the time period.
So I constructed a spreadsheet present value model using these numbers. I used an earnings growth rate of 10%, a final market PE of 20x for a slow grower, and a discount rate of 10%. [NB: my PE is a ratio of current price to earnings for the next year.] To keep it simple, I did it annually. The answer was 26x for five years of growth before slowing.
I actually did a matrix, using 8%, 10% and 12% discount rates and 3, 5 and 7 years of growth. The valuations ranges from about 23x for 12% discount rate and 3 years growth to 31x for 8% discount rate and 7 years growth.
So you can see how the market valuation of companies can vary as the perception of future economic growth changes and the level of interest rates change.
So what? Well, PG certainly has a growth rate of at least 10% for many years in the past and recently. It's current PE is only 21x off 2007 earnings. Du'h ->> it should be at a PE of 24 to 33x. The US stock market is massively undervalued, IIFFF my economic outlook is correct.
And for the last year, I have been correct in my expectations of how the US economy would evolve. So until some news causes me to re-assess, I'm sticking to "LONG & STRONG"
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19 comments:
im so lost. seems like much of EPS growth is coming from stock buybacks and lower $. take IBM for example, the stock was in the toilet till it announced the buy back. then the next day the borrowed 10 bil in the corp bond market to pay for it.
and we both know the CPI is a joke.
there is a lot of stock being taken out of the market and not a ton of new offerings.
at the rate at which the rest of the world is growing, inflation next to impossible to pull down. and we have printed so many $'s its hard to see it not below 70, this yr.
lets see what magic the bls has
;-)
jack b "the best of all possible worlds" lol
mite not be a bad day for IBKR to go public. i hope so
The dollars for the buybacks come from cash flow one way or another, so it doesn't matter.
At least the company executives aren't wasting it on stupid investments like they did in 1980s.
so y borrow the money to do it?
LOL IBKR orginally 20 mil at 23 to 27. they did 40 mil at 30, greedy bastards. hope they can afford some back office help now
watched the biggest upset in the history of the nba playoffs last nite. all the nba bashers r crazy. i love watching the west. i its phoenix's yr. i love watching them play. nash is insane.
man did the warriors just kick the crap out the mavs last nite. warriors snuck into playoffs the last day of the season while the mavs had the 6th best record ever in the NBA with 68 wins. yet the cudnt handle the architect of the team, nellie knew how to take his old boss down.
cuban looked sooo mad after the game i think the camera man just ran away fearing get a beat down. and nellie and cuban still in arb, i believe. jmo, thats it for cuban. he gonna sell the mavs and buy the chicago cubs.
hes sick of stern and now dirk. absolutely stunning but not if u watched it. golden state kicked thier butts for 6 games, winning only 4 but that was enuff. baron davis monster effort on 1 wheel. just a great moment in sports
There are real tax benefits. And many of those companies should be more leveraged. Within reason, borrowing money to buy back "some" stock makes a lot of financial sense.
The interest is deductible, so the cost of that capital is very low now. About 3% or so.
NBA playoffs are fun to watch. Good to see nellie beat cuban.
Those games are on too late for me. My bedtime is about 8PM.
How are the Rockets doing? Bud got me to bet on them last fall to win it all.
any thoughts on the CCJ news, seems like a non event. chart looks great. got a mark there, mite add or sell ;-)
Huge game Saturday night Bunkerman. Game 7!!!!! Rockets at home versus Jazz. Our wager still alive.
he will never say it but nellie has probably never been happier as a coach, than this series.
u know cuban has a bad temper. i cant imagine how mad he is
u gotta like the rockets, no one lost at home yet. thats gonna be a nail biter. sloan will keep the jazz close, but can they stop t mac in the 4th?
great drama
Golly, I'd better try to stay up & watch that game. That could be really exciting with the wager alive.
:-))
SBUX penetrating Ethiopia. can see the adds now. with every frappacino, get a free condom and some rice. maybe they will throw in a bible too. lol
re CCJ, I'm a long term holder. As long as the mine will eventually get working, I don't care.
But traders bounce that stock around, so cost overruns or delays will hurt it. I bought more when the flood was announced & got it around $34. A great buy point.
So all I can say is if "they" hit the stock on costs/delays, it might create a buy point again.
Looks like Si's solars are moving again: FSLR, TSL, SPWR and JASO.
Maybe I'll add now.
im reading CCJ is going on the offensive with respect to the flooded mine. seems like things there r better than expected
fwiw
right or wrong i slutted my 1100 IBKR for 4 beans, watching it now. i just wish they didnt raise it to 40 mil, probably works big
Sheesh, this history of the Thirty Years' War is more exciting than today's market ;-)
Except for Si's solar plays. I did add those at good prices this AM.
peace out
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